Duel Commander

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Jan

27

Born of the Gods banlist update

By Daniel Kitachewsky

Hello everybody,

Wizards has just announced that the banlists for the official formats will be posted only next week, a departure from the usual schedule. Ours is ready already, so we see no point in letting you wait more than what we announced previously. So here we go.

After a few rather quiet months with only small adjustments but several large events, we feel it’s time to address some long-term problems in the format.

These changes take effect on February 7th, 2014.

Wow, what a change!

More explanations can be found HERE.

We’d like to heartily thank our consultants for their awesome input and support:

  • “DON”
  • “LaPince”
  • “Mars”
  • “MarsVolta”

As usual we welcome your feedback. While we read most of the forums out there, the best way to make yourself heard is by writing us HERE. The next announcement is expected to be on April 28th, 2014.

The Duel Commander rules committee.

28 Responses so far

Those bans are all great choices, but it takes us to the same point after edric´s ban. Geist of Saint Traft and Oloro should be banned as welll, for a new and healthier enviroment. If things go only this way, it will appear that people who works on it are just trying to keep Saint Traft as a tier 1 choice. It looks like you are cleaning the hard way for Saint Traft and Oloro.

I believe that Geist won’t be nearly as strong as you make it sound. Time will tell.

Daniel

I would probably not have banned Zur and Derevi, but instead Nevermore and Helm to see if Derevi could keep Zur in check and give the meta some more time to find a way to deal with Derevi (Marath, hello efficient spot removal for those delicious mana critters).

Did play Zur though, just for mentioning possible bias.

Zur : ok

Derevii : trop tôt

natural order : ok, à part bleu pas assez de réponses possible.

oath : mmm mmm bof, avec la sup de zur ca va basculer le meta anti enchant un poil trop.

grim : bof, après on va bannir aussi le basalt ? mauvaise décision

Disparition : normal

Au final Zur à ce que il mérite mais les bans préventifs je suis pas super pour.

Je pense que c’est beaucoup trop tôt pour Derevii, 3 mois d’existence c’est peu. Pourquoi pas plutôt bannir certaines cartes comme Hokori ou pourquoi pas Edric? Et puis surtout très sympa pour ceux qui viennent d’investir dans Derevii…

Très bonne cohérence dans la banlist je pense que tous les joueurs réguliers en edh trouveront vos propos logiques et ont eu au moins une fois les mêmes réflexions . Je pense que le métagame va énormément s ouvrir , la diversité des jeux représentés suite à cette banlist va être une bonne chose pour se perfectionner et tenter de monter des jeux polyvalent face à des stratégies de decks variées. Une dernière réflexion il serait sympa de connaître les cartes sur lesquelles vous portez vos réflexions avant les bans je pense que ça permettrait aux joueurs de mieux suivre votre logique et de réfléchir par eux mêmes a l’impact de ses cartes sur le format une sorte de section “carte en observation ” Même si cela représente sûrement beaucoup de travail bref sur ce je vous félicite pour le travail effectue même si cela ne vient que d un joueur assez modeste mais très fan de ce format. Cordialement Jefferson

Sorry guys, I´m brazilian and I don´t understand French very well. I will try to explain my point of view. After edric´s ban, saint traft became a very powerful deck because it lost the hardest match so far. The same happens now with Zur and Derevi bans. I don´t disagree with those bans, the results and the consistency of those decks show us that this is necessary. But, with those changes, you removed the best Prosh/Wanderer acceleration also. the only deck that didn´t lose something is Saint Traft, that was already a deck to beat. The only deck that didn´t lost any card from the old ones. The other is Oloro, I think doomsday should be studied as a possible ban. I would appreciate if you could post in English, so the forum could be easier to read by foreign people.

So in other words of any commander is ever consistent you banned him/her? Wow way to learn to play around an enemy. I choose our to build around two weeks ago to get back into commander and have now spent a ton of cash just getting some of the peices. Why not banned every powerful card? Or every counter spell? Yep this is not only the pu$$ys way out for you guys its madding that if any general is powerful you just go insane and wine. Isn’t part of all competitive magic learning how to kill a deck? Great thanks for a waste of my time and money. And for the few of you who are saying you picked him because he is uber powerful you are wrong I picked him for the entertaining fetch value. Also with the tactician being banned my backup is gone too…. Maybe its time to get out of MTG….

I think banning Zur is a good idea. It really locks your deck down, slow but surely, every turn.

I find the Derevi ban ridiculous, again I’ve always played Commander to be casually competitive, I want to win.. but I also want to have fun doing it.

Banning Derevi as a Commander makes the card functionally useless as it was designed with the Command Zone purely in mind. So unless you are going to put in a “functional errata” that makes it so her activated ability can be done from the hand or changes it so that it will instead return her to her owner’s hand then the ban takes a card that exists only in one format and was designed for said format and makes it worth less than the ink used to print her on.

Now about how Derevi decks apparently go about locking down the game (again strategies I have never employed myself because while I enjoy winning I don’t need to be a jerk about it) Stasis lock is apparently very easily attained with Derevi as the commander, so why not ban that as I’m sure Stasis is also integral to other Commander’s strategies (Angus Mackenzie anyone?).

In my opinion, take away the tools not the driver.

I spent a lot of time making my Derevi deck literally just “Bands with Birds” with a few wizard tricks just so I wouldn’t be “that guy”.

Im not sure i agree with these bans. Having played both decks (derevi currently) (zur a year or so ago before the ban of vanishing) I can say with certainty that there are other brutal decks in the format that pose just as much of a threat to the meta and competition as the two commanders just banned. Oloro.. giest.. iname.. clique.. arbiter maybe? wydwen? all of these decks are or have been powerhouses and with the exception of the first two they have all lost some of their advantage based on a period of time and the development of a meta that includes them. zur im not sure is worth the ban without vanishing. and derevi has only been around 6 months or so… think they jumped the gun is all

I do think Derevi was too good, but it was probably solvable with some other bannings (Hokori?), and it was defintely too early for this ban.

I hope they will reconsider in a few months, as Derevi is not that broken of a card.

I think the banning of Derevi could be premature. People like to play new cards. Perhaps banning Static Orb or Hokori, Dust Drinker would have been better to see if Derevi could be contained.

Banning commanders is really disenfranchising as people may not be able to find constructive uses. Some people will no longer have a deck and they most likely won’t be able to just swap in a different commander in their Zur or Derevi decks. The banning of Zur seems to be a long time coming, but Derevi is really new and I know people that are still buying the commander precons that will be sad to know they can’t use her.

I like the bans. The ones who dislike the decisions are those who posesses everything Zur most have to turn into a winning machine. Whenever I played against one, I just shaked hands with the owner, said its 2-0 for him and played just to pass the time…
Derevi I think its a good point not because his triggered ability, but for his active. He breaks one of the most important rules in commander: the plus 2 cost after the commander go back to his zone. I think this Commanders that have advantages in the commander zone just breaks the mechanic, like Oloro plus Zur’s Weirding lockdown.
I think you should also ban any cards that breaks the limit rule like Shadowborn Apostle because… well, it really breaks the one rule limit…
But its easier to ban the commander rather the card, because the card could be used in other decks with no problems…
Or maybe we should start have the “restrict” rules… If you are using Derevi you cant have Hokori in the deck or ban RIP in Zur decks…
This way we balance the game, because a balanced game should bring more fun and enjoyment to both the players… Right?

Hello,

We’d like to bring your attention on a very specific point that’s essential to understand how we’ve made decisions based on Commander products.
Commander product are designed for multi-player games, where Derevi is not nearly as strong as it is in Duel.
At the Duel Commander Committee, we manage a ban-list that keeps tournaments of DUEL Commander fair and interesting. Based on these considerations, we believe that Derevi is not suitable for the DUEL Commander format when optimized.
However, if you believe you built a fair and fun version, which is the essence of Commander and players in your playgroup agree with it, you can definitely go on playing with it. It will unfortunately not make it DUEL Commander tournament playable but it will remain fun to play casually.

Cheers,

The Committee

I came here to find out why Derevi was banned so soon. I agree with Stuart M. Derevi looks super fun and the though of opening a precon deck with the intention to turn it into your own is ruined by banning him. Static orb and other degenerate unfun cards should be first on the chopping block..

Have you think that with 30 life starting controll is better becaause aggrodecks don’t have a chance to race this?
banning zur will weaken the deck but don’t crush it some changes and it punished all again
Fastbond legal this can’t be serious

@Monty
“Fastbond legal this can’t be serious”
As you have probably noticed, the Duel Commander rules are a little bit different than normal EDH. In my various playgroups, they have actually become a running joke. Our leading theory on their decisions for the banlist:
1) Unban degenerate cards the Committee likes to play with. See Griselbrand, Fastbond, Primeval Titan, etc.
2) Playtest combinations of these degenerate cards against normal EDH without employing the use of removal effects or countermagic.
3) Ban any cards that are effective versus those degenerate decks, particularly if they necessitate any smidgen of removal to play against.

all i see is people crying over cards, Derevi was ban for basically the same reason as edric. if your going to cry over her, stop playing mtg. because your opinion isn’t going to change their mind.

as i post, i think the main prob is the starting life 30. this destroys aggro decks they can’t realy beat it. i play zur for long time and with 20 life it is more hard against decks who keeps your at turn 1 under presure zur isn’t so strong when good aggrodecks are there to stop him. but this will only be if they doesen’t have to fight against the basic rules, like 30 life. and it isn’t the matter if zur oloro or whatelse is the strongest commander with 30 life starting there is only one deck you should play and this is controll. even that wizard evolve cards for 20 lifetotall startet makes me think you should run commander in turnaments also with 20 life.

and sry but my english is hard brocken^^

come in and get fish slapped by zegana, It’s a hoot!

Griselbrand must be banned.

Buy Derevii preco then buy cards to improve it for FNM, then put it in a box. That is my side.

Now Wizards side. Sell strong commander to catch buyers, then let’s wait a little to sell all stock then ban it.

Wizards doesn’t take Duel Commander into account when designing cards or sets. We are not affiliated with Wizards in any way. This is a purely fan-supported format.

Yes, it sometimes means that we have to ban something that is sold in Commander products, but as stated above, that is a product developed purely for multiplayer play.

you guys are pussies, seriously

just ban every decent card and we’ll be left with all the shit, then the 5 year olds who don’t know how to play magic can have fun. that’s why you ban everything right? commander is a degenerate format, you people are sucking the fun out of it.

if you want a fair game, go play standard.

this is the most worthless idea ever ban what you want. I will play any card I want. Can’t beat it ban it. People need to stop crying and play the game. It is a game. None of you can ban anything it is up to the player what card he or she puts in a deck. It is these people who think they are important and put out a ban lists that kill the game. If you dont like it don’t play it. It’s that easy

Jack, the purpose of duel commander is to have a more balanced edh format, meant for competitive play. The fact of the matter is, Derevi was just too good, and zur was limiting the format. By banning these generals the format has opened up…
If you want to play a degenerate deck just play some multi-player with your buddies. Personally I find it boring to play degenerate edh decks in multiplayer, everyone just plays the same deck… ramp into combo…

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